Re: weirdhaven has sent a question about item #166258845804, that ended on Aug-08-23 14:07:02 PDT – Antique Ouija Bosrd
Helen Duncan Board
eBay – enchantra enchan_isnp3795tc@members.ebay.com
Wed, Aug 9, 2023, 12:25 PM
to me
New message: So you know Murch?! Thart is a very g…
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New message from: enchantra (0)
So you know Murch?! Thart is a very good thing! I am part of the group, have been for years, but not so much inclined on FB. A few years ago a few people down to San Antonio and we all got to hang out. Some great people. (Other’s not so much, but I like dogs better than most people.)
I work as a medium, fairly well known in some circles, including Lily Dale. A dear friend of mine named Sharon Snowman had it, she got it from Buckland who was part of the LDA. Sharon and me were good friends. I bought it from her before she died. She knew I collected the talking boards. Some due that runs the museum was after it, he was vexed I got it. Things have been known to vanish and end up sold from there. Tricky place, Lily Dale.
I sold so much over the years, only have a few boards left, and this one has always been a favorite, because of the history. Helen Duncan had it, and anyone with an iphone can find out about her. He grand-daughter is still alive, lives here in the US. Helen was not known to NEED a board, it is a tool, or to some folks a game. Some titled English woman bought it from Helen’s estate, (and she was not a wealthy lady, ms. Duncan) and gave it to Leek. She used to make the Donahue show, interesting Pagan lady. Made SOME money peddling Wicca, how Raymond Buckland got it from her, Sharon never knew, or told me. Sharon Snowman was with the NSAC, National Association of Spiritualist Churches.
It is a good board, but my spouse, whilst used to me, and what I do, was raised in another tradition, ands you know how some folks are… too much Hollywood. It is a great piece.
I will send you the tracking info tomorrow. It is right here beside my desk and I am VERY glad it is going to a good and worthy home.
I am not too versed on eBay, but figured it out. So thanks for giving me a day to get back to you.
Take care,
Ricky
Reply
Your previous message
Hello,
So I have purchased this Ouija board, and would love to know a little bit about how it came into your possession and any other details you might find interesting. I am affiliated with the Talking Board Historical Society, this will be part of a large collection that will soon be displayed on the history of the Ouija board. If you have any ephemera and other articles with any historical significance, that would be fantastic, it will be framed and shared with all. Thank you
Re: weirdhaven has sent a question about item #166258845804, that ended on Aug-08-23 14:07:02 PDT – Antique Ouija Bosrd
Helen Duncan Board
eBay – enchantra enchan_isnp3795tc@members.ebay.com
Wed, Aug 9, 2023, 5:25 PM
to me
New message: It mattered to me that is is going …
eBay
New message from: enchantra (0)
It mattered to me that is is going to a good home!
Reply
Your previous message
Thank you so much for the information. I was just spent a week in Colorado for Murch’s birthday, and now he is coming here to the DC area next week, so we will be seeing him and Gary then.
I am so excited to get this board, my passion is collecting not only the boards, but also collecting the history, articles and other ephemera dealing with talking boards, and spiritualism. Yes I have all the old boards etc., but it is items like this, with it’s own history, that I would rather spend my money on. So thank you again, this will truly become one of my most prized possessions.
Sincerely
Jamie
enchantra:
So you know Murch?! Thart is a very good thing! I am part of the group, have been for years, but not so much inclined on FB. A few years ago a few people down to San Antonio and we all got to hang out. Some great people. (Other’s not so much, but I like dogs better than most people.)
I work as a medium, fairly well known in some circles, including Lily Dale. A dear friend of mine named Sharon Snowman had it, she got it from Buckland who was part of the LDA. Sharon and me were good friends. I bought it from her before she died. She knew I collected the talking boards. Some due that runs the museum was after it, he was vexed I got it. Things have been known to vanish and end up sold from there. Tricky place, Lily Dale.
I sold so much over the years, only have a few boards left, and this one has always been a favorite, because of the history. Helen Duncan had it, and anyone with an iphone can find out about her. He grand-daughter is still alive, lives here in the US. Helen was not known to NEED a board, it is a tool, or to some folks a game. Some titled English woman bought it from Helen’s estate, (and she was not a wealthy lady, ms. Duncan) and gave it to Leek. She used to make the Donahue show, interesting Pagan lady. Made SOME money peddling Wicca, how Raymond Buckland got it from her, Sharon never knew, or told me. Sharon Snowman was with the NSAC, National Association of Spiritualist Churches.
It is a good board, but my spouse, whilst used to me, and what I do, was raised in another tradition, ands you know how some folks are… too much Hollywood. It is a great piece.
I will send you the tracking info tomorrow. It is right here beside my desk and I am VERY glad it is going to a good and worthy home.
I am not too versed on eBay, but figured it out. So thanks for giving me a day to get back to you.
Take care,
Ricky
A letter from Almina Herbert, Countess of Carnarvon mentioning Sybil Leek and Helen Duncan?
Helen Duncan Board
Jamie arkhamsouth@gmail.com
Attachments
Fri, Aug 11, 2023, 9:40 AM
to williecross
Hello Mr.Cross,
I have something that may be of interest to you , or if a fake, a
slight diversion.
I have made a purchase of a Ouija Board, and with it comes a letter
claiming to be from Almina to Sybil Leek.
The Ouija board itself along with the planchette I believe are
authentic and from around 1900, and so it was worth the price I paid
for that alone.
As to the provenance and belonging to Almina, I cannot say it is true
yet, although I do believe that the person I am purchasing it from
absolutely believes it’s true, so I see no deception on his part.
I will attach pictures of the letter and board, as well as the
correspondence I had had with the seller as to the history of the
board and letter.
I hope you find this interesting, and would love to know your opinion
on its authenticity.
Thank you very much for your time
James Horrell
The letter:
19 March 1958
Dear Sybil : We were delighted to have you at Highclere Castle! Thank
you ever so much for ridding the gatehouse of the dreadful ghost! one
can’t have ar???? place without a few “lingering things”, Of course
but we are ever so glad to see the last of him!
As a token of (our) gratitude we are pleased to present you with this
spirit board. It has a bit of history. It is from the estate of Helen
Duncan, the infamous (medium?) known as “Churchill’s itch”! One cannot
claim she summoned the spirits which made her notorious with this
curious piece, but it was indeed hers.
I thought you of all people would surely appreciate it’s lineage. It
does move about the board with some swiftness.
I shall return to Hampshire next month after stopping again to check
on Cly?? (Clyde?). Though you know now. I dread yet another trip to
Aberdeen!
Cheers! Almina
Correspondence with seller:
So you know Merch ?! That is a very good thing! I am part of the
group, have been for years. A few years ago a few people down to San
Antonio and we all got to hang out. Some great people. (Other’s not so
much, but I like dogs better than most people.)
I work as a medium, fairly well known in some circles, including Lily
Dale. A dear friend of mine named Sharon Snowman had it, she got it
from Buckland who was part of the LDA. Sharon and me were good
friends. I bought it from her before she died. She knew I collected
the talking boards. Some dude that runs the museum was after it, he
was vexed I got it. Things have been known to vanish and end up sold
from there. Tricky place, Lily Dale.
I sold so much over the years, only have a few boards left, and this
one has always been a favorite, because of the history. Helen Duncan
had it, and anyone with an iPhone can find out about her. He
grand-daughter is still alive, lives here in the US. Helen was not
known to NEED a board, it is a tool, or to some folks a game. Some
titled English woman bought it from Helen’s estate, (and she was not a
wealthy lady, Ms. Duncan) and gave it to Leek. She used to make the
Donahue show, interesting Pagan lady. Made SOME money peddling Wicca,
how Raymond Buckland got it from her, Sharon never knew, or told me.
Sharon Snowman was with the NSAC, National Association of Spiritualist
Churches.
It is a good board, but my spouse, whilst used to me, and what I do,
was raised in another tradition, ands you know how some folks are…
too much Hollywood. It is a great piece.
I will send you the tracking info tomorrow. It is right here beside my
desk and I am VERY glad it is going to a good and worthy home..
Take care,
Re: A letter from Almina Herbert, Countess of Carnarvon mentioning Sybil Leek and Helen Duncan?
Helen Duncan Board
williecross@aol.com williecross@aol.com
Attachments
Fri, Aug 11, 2023, 6:07 PM
to me
Hello Jamie.
What a hoot!
Tony Leadbetter, Almina’s godson, my ‘kiss an’ tell’ was the man who would have known of the thread, if true, but he died in 2019.
So it’s down to conducting some sort of autopsy. Yes, an irresistible diversion, but I’m drawn in.
Oh! I so want it to be true, but this typed letter and Almina’s signature are not without questions arising importantly of whether it is signed by Almina’s hand.
An example of Almina’s sweeping signature is attached. I have found a hand written letter ( the letter method she much preferred, after the telephone ). It’s from 1958 to Tony and the sweeping handwriting she adopted early on is still carried forward. Her pet name with Tony was “ Your Lady”, so that doesn’t quite present a comparable enough signature. Another letter from 1962 does however have Almina’s sweeping signature and as you can see it’s a far cry from the signature on this typed letter.
I want to try to be helpful and have drilled down a bit further.
It’s the first time I’ve seen a typed letter purporting to be from Almina. Frankly using a typewriter was beneath her, much too common.
However, I recall Almina’s godson, Tony, telling me there was a typewriter in the home he shared with the Countess ( his mother Anne was Almina’s housekeeper).
Another in the household was JTS Almina’s former agent/bedwarmer in Somerset ( where they lived from the early 1940s until 1949). After Almina’s bankruptcy in 1951 JTS had to find work and contribute to his keep. He had an AGA cooker business and I presume issued invoices, hence the typewriter. Anne may have prepared these, she was a clever, versatile woman and a former teaching assistant
If Almina met Sybil at Highclere in 1958 Anne may also have been in tow as chaperone. The Countess was aged then 82. So that may explain the “ we” referred to, although Almina may have been using the royal WE. JTS certainly never set foot in Highclere, he may driven them there, and kept a low profile and would have been the silent attendant in the car park.
I wondered whether “We” might have meant Almina and her son Henry ( the then 6th Earl of Carnarvon). That said their relationship blew hot and cold.
In March 1958 Almina’s son Henry was reported in “The Tatler” as visiting friends at Nassau, so that excludes him. Highclere was pretty much falling into rack and ruin. The heir in waiting was three years married and living on the Highclere Estate at Milford Lake House.
In March 1958 ( in fact from 1951-1969) Almina was living in a modest house in Hampton Road , Bristol, cohabitating with JTS, Anne the housekeeper and a Labrador named Tiger ( after her second husband).
Tony, was away doing his National Service in Cyprus.
The reference to “ Hampshire” could I suppose mean a return by Almina to Highclere – it sits on the Berkshire-Hampshire borders, but her own home was in Bristol and that’s not Hampshire. She was not without brass neck to just walk into Highclere, whether she was on speaking terms or not with her son. Taylor her son’s Butler would have crawled at her feet and let her loose. And the heir in waiting living nearby was her favourite grandson and he would have been pleased to see his granny.
Almina was not a keen participant in the one time séances at Highclere in the early late 1910s. She snubbed them. Her husband the 5th Earl did have a more enthusiastic interest – and that is all well enough recorded by the Velma/ Count Hamon aficionados around the Old King Tut curse. The only recorded séances of a named medium taking part was of a Louis Steele ( a photographer from Portsmouth) who set another of the guests, Lady Helen Cunliffe Owen into a trance and she starting uttering riddles in a foreign tongue.
I can’t work out the meaning of the Scottish references, Almina had a couple of homes in the Highlands but sold them in the 1930s. I have no knowledge of her and overlaps with Helen Duncan or Sybil.
That’s all I can think of, it’s a interesting possibility at best and as I say all quite a hoot .
Regards
Will
Re: weirdhaven has sent a question about item #166258845804, that ended on Aug-08-23 14:07:02 PDT – Antique Ouija Bosrd
Helen Duncan Board
eBay – weirdhaven member@ebay.com
Sat, Aug 12, 2023, 11:17 AM
to me
New message: Hello, would it be okay to contact …
eBay
New message to: enchantra (0)
Hello, would it be okay to contact you on FB. I have done quite a lot of research, and talking with William (Willie) Cross, Almina’s biographer / author, and he as he he says, “What a hoot. Oh! I so want it to be true, but this typed letter and Almina’s signature are not without questions arising importantly of whether it is signed by Almina’s hand. So it’s down to conducting some sort of autopsy. Yes, an irresistible diversion, but I’m drawn in.”
He sent copies of her her had writing and a long list of details.
So fingers crossed. But, I know that I am also purchasing a story and happy either way, and it’s the digging around that is my passion. I do believe the sincerity of the purchase, and happy either way.
Until Almina Herbert is verified, we do know the trail is verifiable from you, to Sharon Snowman, to Raymond Buckland. That is a heck of a provenance right there, even if we cannot prove the letter. If I cannot substantiate it 100%, then I can display it with all the mysteries that the letter holds, and being once owned by RB.
My question is, would it be possible to send something showing your friendship with Sharon Snowman and any ties Buckland (photocopies, pictures etc).
I am excited to get the board, and digging into the history’s has been a joy.
Thanks
Jamie .
Re: A letter from Almina Herbert, Countess of Carnarvon mentioning Sybil Leek and Helen Duncan?
Helen Duncan Board
Jamie arkhamsouth@gmail.com
Sat, Aug 12, 2023, 1:45 PM
to williecross@aol.com
Hello Will,
Yes, an irresistible diversion, but I’m drawn in.,
So I have one of the larger collections of Ouija / spirit boards, and
have to say it’s researching the stories, history, and the art that
fascinates me the most.
On my end I am having the prior owner of this board see if he can find
anything else. But since he has had the board for over 13 years, and
the principles involved in the history have all died, there may not be
much more. But I am having him send what he can (letters or photos
etc) to substantiate his association with Raymond Buckland, who you
may have heard of (Author on witchcraft etc), so there will be a
verifiable trail at least that far back.
I know Rick (the seller) would refund the money if I found out that
the letter was a fake. But since I do believe his sincerity, I let him
know that I am also purchasing a story, and happy either way, since it
is the digging around that is my passion. And even If we cannot
substantiate the letter 100%, at least I will have a story, and can
display the board with all the mysteries that the letter holds, as
well as once being owned by Buckland.
But if we find any hint that there may be truth, and you would like
anything from my end, please let me know.
I am also involving others in the research. I am associated with The
Talking Board Historical Society, and having dinner on Monday with
the president of the TBHS (Robert Murch), and the owner of the Salem
Witchboard Museum in Salem Massachusetts, John Kozik. They are as
skeptical as I am, but really, who can resist a good tale.
Sincerely
Jamie Horrell.
Re: A letter from Almina Herbert, Countess of Carnarvon mentioning Sybil Leek and Helen Duncan?
Helen Duncan Board
williecross@aol.com williecross@aol.com
Sat, Aug 12, 2023, 5:24 PM
to me
Almina wasn’t keen on other women so if she knew Sybil well enough to make her a gift there must have been a little bit of personal history somewhere in the ether.
I can’t envisage Helen Duncan and Almina sharing a Side Car Cocktail ( Almina’s favourite tipple, after whisky) but the gossip about Helen’s wrangles with the law are sure to have found their way to Almina’s breakfast table.
I see Helen died in Edinburgh. If she left a Will / Estate then there may a record to tap at the Sheriff’s Court in Edinburgh where the Wills and Testaments of Edinburgh’s dead are lodged. These are public records but you will pay for a search and any copies. If it went to Confirmation – what my fellow Scots call “Probate”- there may be an Inventory of Helen’s Estate and again that document can be purchased. Long shot but the board might be listed. but I’d say worth a shot.
A voice from Tony reminds me that in the 1950s Almina was constantly in London on the social circuit ( despite being bankrupt). This was usually a three day stint and she stayed at the Cumberland Hotel gratis, on her previous good custom with the place. Anne was at her side and they had struck a deal with a old friend taxi driver ( called Nosey) to spin Almina and her around the usual haunts eg hairdresser, dentist, Tesiers ( in Bond Street where Almina sneaked in a load of her jewellery to protect it from the hands of the Official Receiver), The Ritz, the Savoy Grill Room etc etc. Almina was still the Countess of Carnarvon and she could still part the seas on demand. Now, one other place she did go to was the auctions at Grosvenor House in Park Lane – that may have been the end game for artefacts from Helen Duncan’s estate. Anyway just a thought, as you are clearly a chap who will leave no stone unturned to unravel a mystery.
I note some of your interesting fellow travellers. All new names to me. I have a friend of sorts, a psychic enthusiast who did some spooky work in Salem years ago, and another friend who actually lives there. From my Scots childhood in the 1950s ( yes, I’m that ancient) I well remember my late mother talking about séances in the little cottage we had where her Aunty Violet was the medium and of strange events that followed. My grandmother was a strong believer and spoke of seeing her own dead mother come back and speak to her. That was Lord Carnarvon’s chief purpose in having séances at Highclere, it was to see his mother again. A mother who died when he was barely 9 years old and he missed every day. His chum Victor Duleep Singh had seen his dead father in a vision and so Carnarvon thought it was possible to see his mother again.
I note you’re a Tarot expect. I know little there, but these cards were a part of some research I did a decade ago about the relationship between Crowley and a Welsh aristocrat called Evan Morgan ( Viscount Tredegar) , whose biographer I am. Evan had some input into the Crowley’s own set of tarot cards. Evan dabbled in the occult and much worse.
I’m thinking perhaps you’ve been sent Jamie. As I have some current research in progress that sweeps in an old Witches Coven in Brighton. That research involves a writer Leslie Roberts who was believed to be part of Doreen Valiente’s Wicca outfit. I may write to you again about this, so no need to respond about it. It’s early days anyway in my slow follow up.
Yes, do please let me know of the outcome of your quest on this fascinating pulp.
I suspect I may be dining out on the story too.
Aye
Will
Re: weirdhaven has sent a question about item #166258845804, that ended on Aug-08-23 14:07:02 PDT – Antique Ouija Bosrd
Helen Duncan Board
eBay – enchantra enchan_isnp3795tc@members.ebay.com
Thu, Aug 17, 2023, 11:14 AM
to me
New message: I tried to write, but FB said my …
eBay
New message from: enchantra (0)
I tried to write, but FB said my language was “offensive”.
WTF?
The board is on the way. I wrapped it myself, as you will see. I do not trust the UPS store to pack right. I am glad it is going to you.
BTW, I have many pics of me and Sharon. They are on my old FB. One day I will send them to you. I MAY have copies of all of the stuff I earned in Lily Dale from the church laying around. I have so much. She signed everyone. She was the BEST person in that nasty little sociopathic village.
Yes, the board has a history.
It is part of mine. 🙂
Please do reach out on FB under the name of Ricky L\ Dale
I am also at PsychicSource.Com
Ricky there as everywhere.
Not so much on the Ouija group.
Some nice people, but I have no need of education proctology beyond my own bedroom.
Blessings to you now and always,
Re: A letter from Almina Herbert, Countess of Carnarvon mentioning Sybil Leek and Helen Duncan?
Helen Duncan Board
Jamie arkhamsouth@gmail.com
Attachments
Mon, Aug 21, 2023, 3:13 PM
to williecross@aol.com
Hello Will,
So it looks like we have one final clue. I finally received the Ouija
board with the letter, and with it the envelope, showing the address
of the Royal Monceau Hotel in Paris (Attached).
Now the only question is how did this letter end up on hotel
stationary with a date of 1958 from Lady Almina.
I would say based on the traceable history of this board, I can feel
confident it was owned by Sybil Leek, and she did pass it on to
Raymond Buckland. And If this letter is a ruse to impress Buckland, it
is a fairly extravagant one with all the claims and details she puts
into its linage. But they did know each other, and were on talk shows
together. And although Raymond Buckland in his book “The Witch Book:
The Encyclopedia of Witchcraft, Wicca and Neo-paganism” acknowledges
her embellishments, he does appear to have gained at least some
sympathy for her in her later years saying, “over the years she did
educate herself on the true workings of the craft and for the last few
years of her life performed good work for Wicca…” (Pg 295).
So whether the letter is a forgery or not, the story about the board,
and its known provenance, makes it well worth the price of admission.
I will also add some pictures of the room that the board now reside
in. I have about 140 talking boards hung up about the house. The one
room in the pictures you will find is dedicated to the history of the
William Fuld original boards that originated close to my home starting
in Baltimore Maryland. My oldest Fuld board being from the first year
they were made in 1892.
Sincerely
Jamie Horrell
P.S. If you ever have any questions about talking boards, Robert Murch
is a close friend of mine and acknowledged as the worlds leading
authority on all things Ouija.
Re: A letter from Almina Herbert, Countess of Carnarvon mentioning Sybil Leek and Helen Duncan?
Helen Duncan Board
williecross@aol.com williecross@aol.com
Mon, Aug 21, 2023, 6:01 PM
to me
Greetings Jamie :
Thanks for the update.
Almina was brought up in Paris where her mother ( a Frenchwoman) fled after Almina’s birth.
It was quite usual for Almina to stay in Paris each year in the 1950s so consistent that she could have stayed at the Royal Monceau. But I don’t have any evidence that she did stay there. The Ritz Hotel was always her favourite hovel in Paris and her son had a job with the Ritz group as a sort of social ambassador, so son and mother stayed there, London and Paris branches, for free.
Yes, I agree with your take on the overall thread and the status of the letter as being an unnecessary fraud, so why attempt it? The possible Almina connection is intriguing but it serves no real purpose of advantage that needs to win over anyone regarding the possession/ history of the board once it was owned by Sybil. I don’t know if Almina knew Sybil and I don’t think that matters, as you have a good later provenance. At best I say the Almina angle is not completely dismissible.
A wonderful room, great layout and colours , thanks for sending these photos and a possible contact for spirit boards, if they crop up in my researches.
After our last exchanges I dropped a line to my Welsh spiritual friend Gavin Cromwell, who I know quite well over more than a decade going back to when he was a guide on spooky tours at Tredegar House one of old aristocratic houses here in Wales that I’ve written about.
Gavin did a US tour in the 2000s and as I know he went to Salem, I was sure he would have ran into John Kozik of the Salem Witchboard Museum in Salem Massachusetts.
Gavin’s response is below and he comments on the photo of the board you sent me:
“Yes! I’ve met John and been to that Museum in Salem they have some amazing boards there, I actually did an interview with John for paranormal radio over there , great memories!
Wow that board it BEAUTIFUL a proper board … I’d say if only it could talk, but it probably can lol! What a treasure! It’s such a fascinating area..”
Small world, eh?
If you are in contact with John, Gavin sends his regards.
I’m glad our paths have crossed.
Blessings
Will